Thursday, July 10, 2008

Didn't anyone read the declaration of Independence?

Two events, the refusal of Karl Rove to testify per a Congressional subpoena, and the Bush Administration's promulgation of Congress' law (one which, I might add, Sen. Obama chose to vote for-undoubtedly for the "scary terrorists around every corner" vote) protecting telecoms that helped the government spy on American citizens, demonstrate for the millionth time that we are not a nation of equality before the law. Once more we lose credibility-abroad and at home-by doing what is ethically wrong but politically expedient.

Shame on Congress, the President, and Karl Rove (whose cocky "I'm special" attitude is disgusting). What is the point of having a justice system, if we just flush it down the toilet when it's not convenient to government ends?


Bill Baar said...

...the refusal of Karl Rove to testify per a Congressional subpoena...

I know some folks who did it in the 50s and they made a big point of saying it was very American of them.

NDM said...

I don't think this is a case of McCarthyism...

Bill Baar said...

Really? You don't think this a political witch hunt by Congress?

Seperation of Powers (and that's the Constitution, not the Declaration of Independence) gives Rove more of a defense than those who claimed they didn't have to testify before HUAC; without much more reason than just because.

NDM said...

Um, no, I don't think that comparing the intrusion of a mad Senator into the lives of private citizens because he didn't like their supposed political affiliation to the Congress investigating a Bush official's potential misconduct makes any sense. Joe American didn't refuse to testify in front of McCarthy by hiding behind the regal excuse of "executive privilege." Moreover, the Constitution protects the freedom of association, but it does not grant Karl Rove the freedom to deign when and if he will comply with a subpoena. Rove believes and behaves as if he is above the law; the same law that the GOP was more than happy to use against Bill Clinton via Ken Starr. Additionally, I think for any WH official to use underhanded tactics to punish those who don't bow and scrape to current WH policiy is reprehensible, regardless of the post nominal political designation.

Bill Baar said...

Rove believes his talks with the Prez are protected under seperation of powers.

You think a Prez Obama wouldn't agree with that?

Rove v the Senate is pure politics to energize a Democratic base TO at Obama over the FISA flip. It's the same reason Pelosi is hinting at impeachment of Bush.
And the same reason Obama has to have this rock star acceptance format for fear of getting booed at a convention filled 50% with disgruntled HRC delegates.

This move on Rove is pure politics to shore up Obama and energize a left that now sees what we have always known in Illinois about Obama for a long time... he is triangulator par excellence.

NDM said...

"You think a Prez Obama wouldn't agree with that?"
What difference does that make? If it had been Rove & an Obama admin under the same circumstances, the point remains. Swapping Obama for Buh doesn't make it "ok." And who cares what Rove "believes;" we don't get to choose when to appear when subpoenaed. Rove is not the king...if this goes to SCOTUS as it did during Nixon's similar attempt, I believe that Rove will lose.

"Rove v the Senate is pure politics to energize a Democratic base TO at Obama over the FISA flip. It's the same reason Pelosi is hinting at impeachment of Bush."
Do you think then that Rove is innocent? Do you really think this is some kind of Obama campaign conspiracy? Subpoenaing Rove is not going to take attention away from Obama's supporters who are upset about his FISA vote.
Impeachment of Bush is an old idea bandied about by folks in the Congress when they are feeling frisky or need to show their claws; it isn't happening, unfortunately. Even if it did, it's too late now and it doesn't absolve Congress of its complicity in his activities.
This Rove thing started long before Obama began his nefarious move from IL Senator to White House hopeful/HRC usurper; your allegations against him may be true, I don't know, but you and your ilk's theories of everything tying back to his campaign is bordering on paranoia. I'm from IL, most of my family is still there, and none of them is as obsessed with Obama as you et alia are.

Bill Baar said...

Do you really think this is some kind of Obama campaign conspiracy?


Axelrod one smart fellow and he fears the recent reaction from the base on Obama's flips on FISA, death penalty, and the rest.

Obama is polling 50% among likely voters in Illinois. McCain something like 46%... that's pretty startling stuff for Obama's home state. So yeah, smart strategists start looking for red meat to re energize the base.

That's how politics works. At least for those of us from Chicago.

Rove by the way the guy who probably recommended Iraqi-American and Chicagoan Ayham Alsammare --Obama's friend and supporter-- as Minister of Elect for Iraq via suggestions from his friends in the Illinois GOP Robert Cellini and Bob Kjellander... so he's guilty of that egregious failure.

I'd sure like to see Waxman haul him before the hearings on Iraq Reconstruction but it's a safe bet the nexus between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to looting Iraq is getting buried.

Bill Baar said...

PS Resurrecting Rove and Bush impeachment isn't a conspiracy by the way. That's strategy and a wise one for them. Bad for America and the Democratic Party but short term makes sense...

NDM said...

I don't think investigating Rove's potential misdeeds is either connected to Obama (Rove was subpoened by the House not the Sentate btw) or has anything to do with appeasing angry Dems. Further, I have yet to see any evidence that Obama's campaign is gunning for Rove as a FISA distraction; you are really reaching Bill.

Bill Baar said...

Obama's 50 50 in the polls.

We in Chicago have watched Axelrod for a long time..... they're reaching for anything that'll get the base back. That's how politics works.

Bill Baar said...

Google Pelosi Impeachment Strategy... the left's been back and forth on the strategy for sometime... it's no secret,

By signaling that the committee may very well pick the issue up, Pelosi probably wants to show to the Democratic liberal base that she respects them. She wants to give them something. Politically, however, the issue of impeachment is more than silly.

It is silly but with Obama's FISA flip, the polls, and fund raising dropping off, the times call for silly.... and that's what Democratic strategists have done.

NDM said...

Your source says nothing about Pelosi engaging in a strategy to grab wayward Dems unhappy over Obama's FISA vote. At most the post you cite suggests that Pelosi's trying to whip up the ultra-lib wing of the party-after all Pelosi and every other member of the House's job is up for grabs in November too.

I don't think sunshine comes out Obama's, um, ears...but I still think you're stretching. And the polls seem to change every ten minutes-CNN one day had a headline along the lines of "Poll suggests problems for Obama." The next day, they had another headline "Poll suggests problems for McCain." I just want to write a headline that says "Uh, duh."